I hope to get all 200 of you to indicate this one way or the other. In fact, I would like any and all of you to get the word out to every Navy group, club, web site, etc. and get a couple thousand responses.
Will everyone who can say YES please send an email to [email protected]?
Thanks very much for your participating, and for passing the word that this poll exists.
I realize that many/most of us had "indirect" knowledge of this, which might include workers in the boiler room/water system, smelling or tasting is, being told about it, etc. etc. We will start collecting that type of information soon.
PLEASE PASS THE WORD - The more response we get, the better picture we can have.
-JR
Agent Orange Aboard Ships
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Agent Orange Aboard Ships
by johnr » Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:33 am
Last edited by johnr on Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:38 pm , edited 2 times in total.
Rossie
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A Veteran -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America, for an amount up to and including their life.
*************
A Veteran -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America, for an amount up to and including their life.
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My own thoughts about this...
by Ken Hummel » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:35 pm
I have an interesting scenario, and with it in mind, I just wonder if this could be used in a claim as further information that the VA would have to consider if one would use it as evidence to prove Presumption of Exposure, no matter if one stepped on shore or not in the Republic of Vietnam.
Today, knowing what we and everyone else in the world knows about exposure to AO and other Dioxins, and as Congress has set forth for all of us who have been exposed and should be duly compensated for this exposure because we are sick, the issue of Presumption and the facts of exposure that are on wait with the Haas appeal at this time, should not even be an issue because of the earlier court ruling, and that ruling from the lower court should be upheld with no problem....with that in mind, I hope this makes it to the people that need to consider what this message has to say.
Now, the argument made in the Haas appeal hearing in November by both sides has come down to really one issue....what the VA can really do to screw all of us who are sick and waiting for this ruling, because they overstepped their boundaries after the courts denied them a stay to further their appeal of the Haas case last year. Because of that illegal gesture on their part, many of our lives have been placed on hold becuase they can do it, and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it but wait!
You and I know that because of our service to our Nation for the preservation of our Constituional Heritage and Freedoms that we enjoy as Americans, (or if I remember right), fighting communism at that time so they wouldn't come to our country, was a duty for most of us because we are Americans and that is what we had to do, no if and's or but's about it, cause the Government said so. OK, with that said, further on!!!
Now, our service had a guarantee to it...you fight the war, you get sick or die, don't worry we will take of you, and if you got killed, they would send your family money and bury you with great honors..... and there have been so many...."Attention on Deck---Hand SALUTE" to those who have sacrificed their all, and to those of us who will continue to fall because of our service...."At Ease".
OK sailor, back to the issue!
The VA is fighting the VN service medal and attacking with the boots on ground issue, but as the scientific evidence has shown, and as mother nature has played her part in this issue, and the studies that have been done by so many in Guam, Panama and Florida just to list a few, and the absolute attempt of the VA attorney argueing the Haas case to remove the mentioned Austrailian Study from the testimoney at the last moment, it is absolute proof that they know the presumption is evident beyond the boundaries of the Republic of Vietnam and her territorial waters.
As I mentioned in one of my previous post on this site, I believe that eventually it will come down that the VA is going to have to prove that we were not exposed, because, there were so many of us in so many places throughout our world on so many vessels, and the element of exposure is in such mass numbers at the time of the spaying of Vietnam, and the continuing exposure that is hidden in our vessels that so many of us have served on. I say this because of personal service and research of the possibilities of my own scenario.
I served aboard the USS Basilone DD824, better known as the "Dirty B", and I feel honored to have served aboard her as one of the last fighting ships that assisted in the ending of that long drawn out war that produced absolutely nothing but the loss of many great American's. However, this was not her only tour in Vietnam, as many other vessels of our United States Navy, and with this thought in mind, I researched my next duty station, USS Point Defiance LSD31, and I researched her service in Vietnam, continuious from 65-72. Now, with those many years of service, and her job as a transport ship, what where her duties, where was she at during the spraying, how much water did she make from the gulf, how many times did she see Guam, what did she haul as cargo?
My message I am trying to deliver here is simple, and with a toxin that apparently dosen't need much exposure to for long periods of time, again I suggest, how can the VA not prove exposure to anyone who has served aboard any vessel of the US Navy that has had any involvement of the Vietnam war. How can they attempt to use a structure as Boots on Ground to make a ruling in a case against any American who served in our military doing the job that they where ordered to do. Truly I believe, any ship, any rifle, any tank, jeep, canteen or person that was in Vietnam, made exposure possible for years to come for any of us, and as it looks today, this is not a false statement, this is why we are still here discussing this matter.
Today, knowing what we and everyone else in the world knows about exposure to AO and other Dioxins, and as Congress has set forth for all of us who have been exposed and should be duly compensated for this exposure because we are sick, the issue of Presumption and the facts of exposure that are on wait with the Haas appeal at this time, should not even be an issue because of the earlier court ruling, and that ruling from the lower court should be upheld with no problem....with that in mind, I hope this makes it to the people that need to consider what this message has to say.
Now, the argument made in the Haas appeal hearing in November by both sides has come down to really one issue....what the VA can really do to screw all of us who are sick and waiting for this ruling, because they overstepped their boundaries after the courts denied them a stay to further their appeal of the Haas case last year. Because of that illegal gesture on their part, many of our lives have been placed on hold becuase they can do it, and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it but wait!
You and I know that because of our service to our Nation for the preservation of our Constituional Heritage and Freedoms that we enjoy as Americans, (or if I remember right), fighting communism at that time so they wouldn't come to our country, was a duty for most of us because we are Americans and that is what we had to do, no if and's or but's about it, cause the Government said so. OK, with that said, further on!!!
Now, our service had a guarantee to it...you fight the war, you get sick or die, don't worry we will take of you, and if you got killed, they would send your family money and bury you with great honors..... and there have been so many...."Attention on Deck---Hand SALUTE" to those who have sacrificed their all, and to those of us who will continue to fall because of our service...."At Ease".
OK sailor, back to the issue!
The VA is fighting the VN service medal and attacking with the boots on ground issue, but as the scientific evidence has shown, and as mother nature has played her part in this issue, and the studies that have been done by so many in Guam, Panama and Florida just to list a few, and the absolute attempt of the VA attorney argueing the Haas case to remove the mentioned Austrailian Study from the testimoney at the last moment, it is absolute proof that they know the presumption is evident beyond the boundaries of the Republic of Vietnam and her territorial waters.
As I mentioned in one of my previous post on this site, I believe that eventually it will come down that the VA is going to have to prove that we were not exposed, because, there were so many of us in so many places throughout our world on so many vessels, and the element of exposure is in such mass numbers at the time of the spaying of Vietnam, and the continuing exposure that is hidden in our vessels that so many of us have served on. I say this because of personal service and research of the possibilities of my own scenario.
I served aboard the USS Basilone DD824, better known as the "Dirty B", and I feel honored to have served aboard her as one of the last fighting ships that assisted in the ending of that long drawn out war that produced absolutely nothing but the loss of many great American's. However, this was not her only tour in Vietnam, as many other vessels of our United States Navy, and with this thought in mind, I researched my next duty station, USS Point Defiance LSD31, and I researched her service in Vietnam, continuious from 65-72. Now, with those many years of service, and her job as a transport ship, what where her duties, where was she at during the spraying, how much water did she make from the gulf, how many times did she see Guam, what did she haul as cargo?
My message I am trying to deliver here is simple, and with a toxin that apparently dosen't need much exposure to for long periods of time, again I suggest, how can the VA not prove exposure to anyone who has served aboard any vessel of the US Navy that has had any involvement of the Vietnam war. How can they attempt to use a structure as Boots on Ground to make a ruling in a case against any American who served in our military doing the job that they where ordered to do. Truly I believe, any ship, any rifle, any tank, jeep, canteen or person that was in Vietnam, made exposure possible for years to come for any of us, and as it looks today, this is not a false statement, this is why we are still here discussing this matter.
-
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by Bluesman » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:50 pm
I have to say no to this poll but that doesn't mean I did come in contact with AO on my ship.
I was on the USS Camden an AOE. We carried everything on this ship. We had ship stores and grocery's, ammo, fuel of all kinds, and these pallets of 50 gal drums stacked to the roof in the cargo holes. Our chopper would airlift them over to the carriers when we were along side. I never ask what was in them but I imagine I could have found out if I had. I do remember us loading them on board in Subic and with them like all things loaded on our ship was a manifest of everything we loaded. That manifest stayed with the ship. I imagine that there may be records of those manifest somewhere in the archives. In fact, there may be manifest for every ship and what it had on it somewhere.
I was on the USS Camden an AOE. We carried everything on this ship. We had ship stores and grocery's, ammo, fuel of all kinds, and these pallets of 50 gal drums stacked to the roof in the cargo holes. Our chopper would airlift them over to the carriers when we were along side. I never ask what was in them but I imagine I could have found out if I had. I do remember us loading them on board in Subic and with them like all things loaded on our ship was a manifest of everything we loaded. That manifest stayed with the ship. I imagine that there may be records of those manifest somewhere in the archives. In fact, there may be manifest for every ship and what it had on it somewhere.
A person can fail many times,
but you aren't a failure until you
begin to blame someone else.
Life's Hard and Then You DIE!!!
The Bluesman
USS Camden AOE2
A floating Convenience Store
but you aren't a failure until you
begin to blame someone else.
Life's Hard and Then You DIE!!!
The Bluesman
USS Camden AOE2
A floating Convenience Store
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agent orange on ship
by keninboaz » Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:10 pm
I was on a lst in the rivers I don't think we would have had it on board.All of our water came from the river the showers smelled like fuel oil .I don't
remember anything about the drinking water.I think sometimes the water
for showers was stored in fuel tanks maybe thats why it smelled.Agent
orange was mixed with kerosene or sometype fuel oil before it was sprayed. agent orange was one of the rainbow herbicides.They also had pink,blue,white,purple.The orange had a orange stripe on the drum.So if your ship had drums with some colored stripe around it .It may have been
herbicides.I can't remember seeing it sprayed but I saw places along the river (free fire zones) miles long where the jungle was brown on the other
side it was green.
remember anything about the drinking water.I think sometimes the water
for showers was stored in fuel tanks maybe thats why it smelled.Agent
orange was mixed with kerosene or sometype fuel oil before it was sprayed. agent orange was one of the rainbow herbicides.They also had pink,blue,white,purple.The orange had a orange stripe on the drum.So if your ship had drums with some colored stripe around it .It may have been
herbicides.I can't remember seeing it sprayed but I saw places along the river (free fire zones) miles long where the jungle was brown on the other
side it was green.
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by woof658 » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:37 am
I dont know I was on the Princeton LPH-5 and on several work parties but cant remember that far back we were off the coast of vietnam for several months in 63 and went in twice -one was a sneak mission at night.
JGB USS Princeton LPH-5
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by hankms » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:17 am
I couldn't answer the question with an affirmative answer as I worked on the flight deck after my first 30 days. All I know for sure is that we worked some very long days. Under normal conditions we worked 12 on 12 off. After I made 3rd Class I went to V-6 for about 15 days in the shop. After that I was told that since I had experience on the flight deck I was being sent back up there as Flight Deck Electrician. Twelve hour days were short days then. I had to have a power status report on the Flight Deck Officers desk an hour before Flight Quarters. After Flight Quarters were secured I had to make another status report and also repair any stations that were down. After that I could secure...Long days and nights but wouldn't trade it for anything.
I woke up on the right side of the dirt today and knew it was the start of another great day!
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by teedles » Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:34 pm
I remember cleaning the ships bell that had a very oily smelly substance on it. I remember because I normally cleaned it with kool aid but kool aid wouldn't even touch it so I went to the boat sen locker to get degrease but still had to use a lot of elbow grease. I also remembering cleaning (around the same time) the spud locker that had 600lbs of rotted potatoes in it. They sat behind the asrock launcher. one day they were fine and the next day they were all rotted MR.Hanie the supply officer said it was agent orange. That was in 03/1973. but they said they stopped spraying in 1970 
Can you tell I was a cook.
when you clean 600 pounds of rotten potatoes trust me you don't forget that
Can you tell I was a cook.
when you clean 600 pounds of rotten potatoes trust me you don't forget that
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good question and hard to answer
by pondbird » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:56 am
I was on a tin can that pulled into danang harbor a couple of times plus actually did fire support in the harbor (according to my ships history). We pulled into Nha Trang harbor also and camh ran bay and according to one machinist mate i contacted we even pulled into saigon and tied up. My ship did a lot of fire support from roughly just above the demarcation line all the way to southern tip of vietnam. We were close enough to shore doing fire support that i could hear shrapnel hitting my ship from the aft diesel room where i was assigned during firing missions. I could/would bet that somewhere during this time odds were extremely high that i did have contact with either breathing air contaminated or drank/bathed in contaminated water. If the harbor at Vung Tau was contaminated then danang harbor was contaminated from water coming down the han river. We probably in our travels south went close enough to vung tau harbor to distill contaminated water even. actually i could probably vote yes to the questionaire but have been taught to never lie so i have answer no at this time. Congress and the VA are sticking a knife in too many navy veterans. They can not have a conscious to continue doing this. How can navy veterans have contacted nhl on ships without agent orange being the culprit? How can AO have left the coast and contaminated all these people yet not contaminate people with other diseases on the presumptive list. Of course the VA may never be held accountable unfortunately to explain this curious happening.
pondbird---USS Forrest Royal DD 872 USN---Vietnam 1967
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Re: Agent Orange Aboard Ships
by Link » Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:30 am
Yes - During unreps (under way replenishment), we brought several pallets of gray drums with "Herbicide" and a federal stock number stenciled in white on board from a Navy cargo ship. That was before the orange stripe marking. Being an old farm boy, I recognized what an herbicide was. This was on board the USS Constellation, CVA-64, 1964-65, while assigned TAD to Ship's Company. I do not know what happened to that material or how it was transported off the ship.
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Re: Agent Orange Aboard Ships
by maxthames » Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:00 pm
Maybe a F.O.I.A request for supply records would bear fruit. I've had it on my mind, but I've never done one...
I could try one for my period of service on the U.S.S. Enterprise, while other shipmates could submit for their particular ship. What do you think?
M.T.
I could try one for my period of service on the U.S.S. Enterprise, while other shipmates could submit for their particular ship. What do you think?
M.T.
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Re: Agent Orange Aboard Ships
by johnr » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:46 pm
I think anything you can dig up from the old records can be put to good use. Go for it.
-JR
-JR
Rossie
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A Veteran -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America, for an amount up to and including their life.
*************
A Veteran -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America, for an amount up to and including their life.
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Re: Agent Orange Aboard Ships
by GordyM » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:43 pm
While I was reading a web site called "AllMilitary.com" I ran across a posting. I wish I had some way of contacting the person listed below. I served aboard the Coral Sea and a buddy letter from him would help my case......
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Gordy
ABF2 (Aviation Fuels)
USS Ticonderoga
USS Oriskany
USS Coral Sea
1972 - 1976 (active duty)
ABF2 (Aviation Fuels)
USS Ticonderoga
USS Oriskany
USS Coral Sea
1972 - 1976 (active duty)
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Re: Agent Orange Aboard Ships
by daklander » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:31 pm
GordyM wrote:While I was reading a web site called "AllMilitary.com" I ran across a posting. I wish I had some way of contacting the person listed below. I served aboard the Coral Sea and a buddy letter from him would help my case......
Gordy, try this email. It was listed under the email hot link and in his profile: [email protected]
Looks like his name is Al O'Guinn.
Good luck.
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Re: Agent Orange Aboard Ships
by RGaddy » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:33 am
I served aboard the Coral Sea 1969-70 got hodskins and Blood pressure problems..this is info is kind of a shock..didnt know it was transported like this..going for some treatments...get back to this later... any info will be welcomed Thanks
RGaddy
RGaddy
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